Nobody Can Stop Me   

Published on August 23, 2010 by TheNEWS   ·   3 Comments

Recently, former vice-president, Alhaji Atiku Abubakar declared his ambition to run for the presidency of the country. Not a few Nigerians wondered why, having tried to achieve this dream within the Action Congress, AC, without succeeding in 2007, he now wishes to use the platform of the Peoples Democratic Party, PDP, a party that pushed him and other politicians out earlier. Nigerians expected explanations on these and more issues. It was for this reason that ADEMOLA ADEGBAMIGBE, General Editor; OLUOKUN AYORINDE, Abuja Bureau Chief; DESMOND UTOMWEN and photo journalist, FEMI IPAYE met and interviewed him

Despite the failure of your previous effort, you are gearing up again to contest for the Nigerian presidency. Why the persistence?
First of all, I feel it is my right as a Nigerian to run for the presidency for as many times as possible. I feel I can offer the country my services. I still believe that I have quite a lot to contribute to the development of this country. And what is actually prompting me the more is that the more I travelled abroad, and seeing other countries move forward, the more I get the impetus to want to move Nigeria also in that kind of direction. So, I am prompted really by patriotic zeal to contribute to the development of this country and I also believe that with the experience I acquired as vice-president for eight years, I have the experience and the capacity to move Nigeria to an enviable position in the comity of nations. So, these are some of the reasons I am offering myself again for the presidency. It is not persistence as such, but more of a patriotic zeal.

In the last general elections, you left the Peoples Democratic Party, PDP, and joined the Action Congress, AC, on which platform you contested the presidency. Given recent events, especially the fact that you had to leave the AC again for the PDP, would you say it was a mistake to join AC or leave PDP in the first place?
My running on the platform of AC was inevitable. One, I was pushed out of PDP. Ordinarily, I had looked forward to an orderly succession between the former president, Olusegun Obasanjo and myself – because this was an issue that we had discussed before. But of course, there was a change of mind on his own part later on. That change of mind also resulted in my being pushed out of the party, and one thing that I will not allow anybody to suppress is my right under the constitution and as given to me by God.

Can you be more elaborate on this agreement on orderly succession between you and the former president, because I don’t think many Nigerians have heard about this before?
I agree, most Nigerians didn’t know. During our first term in office, I  walked up to the President then and said to him, ‘Look, Mr. President, if we finish our two terms as president and vice-president, let’s quit and allow another set of people to come in.’ He banged the table in front of me. He said: ‘Mr. Vice-President, I am not going to repeat the mistake I made in 1979 when I handed over the presidency of this country to somebody I did not know, I did not work with, who did not believe in my philosophy and what I set out to do. Twenty years after, I came back, the projects I initiated were still there uncompleted. So, I believe if I spent eight years and you continued where I stopped, by the time we make 16 years, nobody would reverse the progress of this country anymore.’ That made a lot of sense to me and that was actually the beginning of my interest in the presidency. But along the way, there was a change of mind on the part of the President and that agreement collapsed.

What would you say was responsible for this change of mind?
Hangers-on, I believe. Of course, after that, the issue of the objective of amending the constitution to ensure tenure elongation, to remove term limits and so and so forth as well.

There were speculations that you left AC because of the problems you had with the leadership of the party?
No, I never had any problem with the leadership of AC. I have all along advocated for a strong and viable opposition party and I tried to push that to AC leadership. I was instrumental to bringing about the Buhari/Bafarawa/AC coalition and I was made the chairman of the steering committee. And I recommended how a viable opposition party could emerge. I also suggested that all the parties have to make one sacrifice or the other. We’ve got to be pragmatic to be able to come together as one political party, but I found out that most of the parties, for individual concerns, were not prepared to do that. They were not prepared to give and take. Buhari has already registered his political party, his politics is: I am the political leader, I am the presidential candidate type, so he opted out. AC was dogmatic in the sense that they will not want their name, their logo tampered with, but I told them it is not possible.  So, they went to Benin and reached a resolution that they will not amend the constitution, they will not change name, they will not change logo, so I found myself isolated. But eventually, one of the names I suggested to AC was what appeared some days ago during their convention. I said why can’t we be ACP or ACN and then, we leave the logo, so that we can give others a sense of belonging and then look at the constitution? I said let us allow them to have input into the constitution of the party. These are some of the recommendations I made as chairman of the steering committee on how we could integrate to form a viable party. So, when I found myself alone, I had no alternative than to call my own stakeholders from across the country and said, ‘Look, this is where we found ourselves again, which way?’ They said, ‘Well, we never left PDP on our own anyway, we were driven out. So, now that the circumstances are not the same and the Ekwueme report is there, NEC White Paper is there, urging all who left to come back to the party, let’s go back to where we came from.’ That was how we returned to the PDP.

But some of your critics are wondering why you should return to a political party you swore never to return to and are even questioning your political philosophy and principles…
No, I want you to quote to me where I swore.

Or rather, you promised?
I don’t think it is right. There was never a time I swore that I was not going to return to PDP.

But there is also the argument that leaders like you must be ready to sacrifice their immediate ambition to help galvanise the masses towards the formation of a viable opposition party.
At any point in time, it is one man who will be the president of the country. I have done all what I possibly could do to create a viable opposition. And when I set out to do that, we all said we should abandon our presidential ambition to ensure the emergence of this viable opposition party. That was the first pledge we made among ourselves. But apparently some were not sincere.

You left the PDP partly as a result of your disagreement with the former president who still remains in the party as the chairman of the Board of Trustees.  Would you say the differences between you have been resolved now that you are back in PDP?
We have a new leadership in the party, the situation is different now. We have a new leadership in the country that is obviously different, and the BOT is an advisory body – it has not hindered my return to the party in anyway.

Your return to the PDP has been creating ripples in the Adamawa State chapter of the party with claims and counter claims that you did not follow due process…
There had been crisis in Adamawa PDP before I even returned. There was a crisis that was more than two years old, with major stakeholders of the party on one hand and the governor on the other. Every effort made by the leadership of the party at the national level to resolve that did not work and it is within that context that I returned to the party. But I didn’t have any problem at my ward in returning to the party, I didn’t have any problem at the local government, and that is basically what the constitution says. But my ward executive was threatened with dissolution, persecuted and so on, but they stood firm and said no, this is our son, he brought this party to this ward, this local government, you can do whatever you want. We have re-admitted him, he has returned, he has followed due process, he met with the ward executive, he met with the local government executive, he went round, so you cannot intimidate us not to accept him. So, basically that was it. Of course, some people are jittery.

While you have been able to reconcile with stakeholders in Adamawa PDP such as Professor Jubril Aminu, the situation is different with Murtala Nyako, the governor of the state. There are even insinuations that your loyalists are behind the recent removal of the Speaker of the state House of Assembly?
Honestly, I don’t think I have any problem with most of the major stakeholders in Adamawa in terms of political differences or anything. After I was forced out of the party, I did not take any of them on individually or personally. Of course, many of them have insulted me, saying all kinds of things but I don’t think that is how politics is played. I don’t play politics that way, because I know sometimes we may come back and work together, which is evidently happening now. How could I take over the party? The party does not belong to any one of us. I believe that the party should belong to members and they should decide what to do with it. I don’t believe in handing over party to individuals and that is why I cannot compromise internal democracy within the party.

But personally, what would you say you have done to end the festering crisis in the Adamawa State chapter of PDP since your return to the party?
Quite a lot. Even before Ogbulafor left, I was urging him to bring all stakeholders in Adamawa PDP together to meet and try to resolve the situation. While I was doing that, he bowed out and I continued with the new chairman. And for the first time in nearly two and half years, the National Secretariat invited the stakeholders of the party to Abuja and each party stated its case and the National Working Committee listened and said it was going to take measures to resolve the crisis. I believe they are now in the process of scheduling another round of meetings to try to resolve the crisis. So, I believe these are all part of my contribution towards the resolution of the crisis in the party.

What would you say is responsible for the failure of AC which you were in then to capture Adamawa State in the 2007 elections?
We can call them elections now, but we know those were not elections. I mean in a free and fair election, there is no way you could have beaten us. I come from the Southern zone of Adamawa and that is the only zone that produced all the members elected to the state House of Assembly and the House of Representatives on the platform of AC and as far as I can remember, we won the re-run elections, but INEC said they had instructions to declare PDP. Is that what you call elections?

Are you confident that things will change in 2011?
With the new leadership in INEC, I look forward to a level playing field, particularly with the autonomy granted to INEC that they can now conduct credible elections in the country if they want to.

The electorate will find it gratifying that Chief Obasanjo will not be a threat to your ambition, because there is this belief that he can do and undo in the PDP…
That is not right, that is not correct.

The question really is that many are still confused about what led to your first visit to him after the two of you fell apart, because the former President was saying that you were pestering him for reconciliation with phone calls and so on and that he even had to change his phone number. We want you to tell the people what really happened?
All that is not correct. I never made any overtures, but I believe there were some friends common to both of us. I remember one eminent Nigerian was Ahmed Joda; he was and he is still close to Obasanjo and close to me. He is from Adamawa and he suggested the reconciliation to me and I told him I don’t have any problem with the former president and I don’t see the basis for the reconciliation and I don’t have any problem with him. We could disagree politically, but it is not my nature to bear grudges. And then, after that another common friend in the person of Osun State Governor again came to me. And it was under the auspices of the Governor of Osun State that we then met. So, I don’t think if you confront President Obasanjo, he will tell you that I made persistent telephone calls to him and that he had to change his number. I don’t even know his number.

But were you surprised when you heard or read that in the papers?
I have a different attitude, a different culture; I don’t take on my seniors particularly in age publicly and I also don’t take on my bosses publicly, but I could confront them one to one. All I want to tell you is that nothing of that sort happened.

There was this speculation that you have an agreement with President Jonathan that if he wants to run in the 2011 elections, you will not run. Is that true?
I am not aware of that.

The speculation is that as part of the agreement for your return to the party, meetings were held between you and him where you reached this understanding?
No, I am not aware of that. No, no.

Let’s discuss this contentious issue of zoning that is generating a lot of heat across the country. Where do you really stand on this issue of zoning?
You know where I stand now. I stand on zoning because that is the only thing that can bring about unity and stability in this country.

Critics are saying that Alhaji Atiku Abubakar who is a national leader and has friends across the country should not be the one promoting zoning, regional politics and things like that?
No, it is not an issue of regional politics because Nigeria is a multi-ethnic and multi-religious country and we have seen it in the First Republic. The practice of winner takes all was what led to the first crisis or the collapse of that republic. I mean zoning provides fair and equitable distribution of power at all levels and it is not something new, it is not something undemocratic and it is not something that is uncivilised, because western countries practice it.  The developed democracies practice it. Switzerland does it. Switzerland has how many nationalities? French, Italians, Germans and so on and they rotate their presidency every year. Belgium does it; it’s a developed democracy, it is Europe. There are many countries that practise it, so I don’t see anything wrong with it. I want to ask you a question: in an election that is going to be determined by numbers, could the president have won? Because up till now, whether we like it or not, because of our developmental stage we vote either based on ethnic, regional or sometimes on religious sentiments. These sentiments still determine the way our ordinary people vote because the bulk of our people are in the rural areas, about 70 per cent of them. So, some ethnic group may never get to rule the country. But with zoning, they can and they are already.

There is also insinuation that those clamouring for zoning now are afraid that they may not be able to make headway standing against an incumbent president in an election. So, the zoning argument is just a way to get him out of the way. Would you agree that this could be a remote reason for this agitation for zoning?
You know most enlightened Nigerians are sycophantic; they always seek to go along with anybody in power or in office. But if there is anything I have prepared for in life, it is to make sure that I don’t compromise my principles because of patronage. So, that’s why I patterned my life in a way that I can be able to stand up to government and say ‘no’, to stand up to a dictator and say ‘no, I don’t believe this’.

Based on your support for zoning, what is your view on the resolutions reached by the Northern Governors on the issue at their last meeting in Kaduna?
I believe that their position was based on the consultations they have made and the consultations are still going on. There is something I think Nigerians need to know about the North – as diverse as we are, we have the capacity to come together in less than 12 hours.  Let me tell you, in the 2003 Convention, you know it was within a few hours that I decided together with others and said, let us give it to Obasanjo. It was within 12 hours and even right on the Convention ground, states were calling me to ask, should we still vote for this man? And I would say yes, go ahead and vote. So, do not underestimate the capacity of the North to come together within 12 hours.

You were a major factor then as the vice-president; do you think you can still exercise that kind of influence now?
We work as a group. Don’t you see me together with IBB? Don’t you see me together with Buhari? We work as a group.

Some people are even insinuating that your working together with Buhari and IBB is a marriage of convenience?
It is not marriage of convenience; it is a marriage of conviction.

Do you think the PDP machinery will support your ambition?
Whether the PDP machinery supports my ambition or not is not something within their control.

But you need the ticket of the party as a member of PDP now?
Yes, I need the ticket of the party, but the party is not PDP machinery, the party is the people. Look at the new Electoral Act, it has strengthened internal democratisation within the parties. There are only two options – you either go for direct primaries or indirect primaries.

Taking a panoramic view of Nigeria, where do you think the major support for your ambition will come from, assuming you are able to get the presidential ticket?
I believe my support will come from all parts of Nigeria.

Do you see the President as a threat to your ambition given the fact that he has the incumbency advantage?
Of course, incumbency is always a threat to any opposing candidate, so why not?

Where do you stand in this option of moving en masse or adopting another political party to ensure that the presidency remains in the North if a northerner is unable to get the PDP presidential ticket as being canvassed by some stakeholders from that part of the country?
Don’t look at me as an individual. I know of some governors in the North who went to consult with their people and they were told that if you don’t keep to this agreement, we will vote you out and even vote out the Jonathan that you are bringing. And they will do it.

Let’s come back to the issue of zoning. Many are criticising Nigerian politicians for concentrating discussion on zoning over other important national issues?
You must be there first of all to be able to discuss issues. It is not as if there are no issues. There are issues, very, very serious issues, very, very fundamental issues. But you must have a platform first to be able to talk about issues.

One more thing about zoning, when you were the vice-president, assuming the president then had died then and the opportunity was available to you to contest the presidency as a president who succeeded his late boss, as it is available to President Jonathan now, would you have forgone the opportunity in  favour of a southerner as you are asking the incumbent President to do for a northerner?
I have proved that many times in my political career. I have proved that what is more important to me is the unity, stability and progress of this country. I have done that in 1993 when I stepped down for MKO Abiola. In fact, let me even say that in 1998 when the entire PDP structure was being controlled by me, if I had wanted presidential ticket, I would have taken it on a platter of gold, but I didn’t do it. In 2003, it was there for me to take on the table, but my most important concern is the unity and progress of this country.

Talking about issues, how exactly will you fix Nigeria if elected the president? Let’s begin with the economy
You know, I still believe that the government is too much into the Nigerian economy. So, government has to scale down its involvement in the economy and allow the private sector to take control. There is too much government involvement in our lives; I want to reduce that and also to create a conducive environment for investment. That is very important. I can tell you that we don’t have the money to develop this country. Believe me, the government does not have the money. The National Assembly recently appropriated N87 billion to INEC, but the government didn’t have kobo! They are funding it by bonds; that is borrowing. Our entire capital expenditure is being funded by borrowing. The only way is to encourage foreign investors and give them all the incentives that they need to come in, so you have to reduce the size of government. In my policy document, I indicated five national emergencies to address. They are employment and wealth creation, electricity and infrastructure development, the Niger Delta, education, health and social services and deepening democracy, transparency and the fight against corruption. One of our greatest challenges is the creation of jobs for our teeming youths. I will lead a government that will confront unemployment by placing emphasis on high impact job creation. We are going to   encourage entrepreneurs and create job opportunities through national priority projects in labour-intensive infrastructure development. This will include road and rail track development, development of a gas pipeline network, affordable housing etc. We shall set up a manpower agency where jobseekers will meet job providers. We shall streamline the activities of the various job creation agencies to ensure that objectives are harmonised and efforts are better channeled to reflect government’s priorities. Our attention in the short term shall include the provision of incentives for the jobless by changing the incentive structure through increase in salaries of teachers and health workers. We shall provide vocational/skills acquisition training to a minimum of 200,000 potential entrepreneurs. More jobs will also be created by assisting the growth of the entertainment industry, especially Nollywood. Initiatives to assist the sector to provide jobs shall include ensuring access to bank financing. We shall squarely address the serious matter of copyright violation. As for the promotion of Nollywood to create more jobs, government will encourage partnerships between banks and Nollywood to deepen access to bank funding, assist in the enhancement of film production capabilities and technology through the Nigerian Film Corporation and private sector initiatives. Government will embark on initiatives to access new markets in Africa, the diaspora, the Black world, and Asia. We shall work for improved distribution networks nationwide and outside Nigeria, and generally facilitate their integration into the formal economy, ensure the passage of a more pro-active Copyright Act and guarantee the strict enforcement of the copyright law.
Medium term strategies for job creation will include the development of skilled workers who will add value to the economy. There shall be vocational training and skill acquisition programmes for one million people. This will enable potential entrepreneurs to acquire accounting, management training expertise. We shall strengthen the Small and Medium Enterprises Development Agency of Nigeria, SMEDAN, to provide business support/advisory services and make it to champion policies for SME growth.  SMEDAN will also be made to develop and enhance existing skill centres to support the areas the government is emphasising. I mean areas like construction, teaching, health care delivery, information communication technology. It will also be saddled with the responsibility of facilitating development of private sector micro-credit structures to support aspiring business people. Government will also develop sports, making it a viable business and employer of labour through Private and Public Partnership, PPP.  We can create more jobs by applying creativity into how we maintain law and order. More jobs will be created in the sector by outsourcing basic security services in government offices and by encouraging the private sector security firms to expand their scope to effectively complement the police.
Agriculture is the largest employer of labour although its contribution to the GDP is not commensurate with its status.  We shall utilise agriculture as a means of creating jobs in the rural and urban areas. Government will create linkages between infrastructure development and job creation. Specific initiatives in this regard will include using as much local input as possible in developing new rail tracks, constructing road networks across the country and the construction of gas pipelines, which in itself will improve energy sources, improve our revenue base and help conserve our forests and environment.

Can you elaborate on your strategy to address the problem of power supply in the country?
There is a high correlation between GDP growth and availability of electricity. Based on some preliminary assessment, by 2011 Nigeria will need 13,000MW of available generation capacity, and 20,000MW by 2015. A national priority programme is therefore required to provide an additional minimum of 1000MW per annum until we achieve 15,000MW. In the short term, we shall adopt a two-tier approach, what we call an Emergency Power Programme, EPP, that can deliver additional capacity in certain key areas and also ensure the completion of the power plants, distribution and transmission infrastructure currently under construction and a National Power Programme, NPP, to be pursued over the medium term. We shall undertake a review of existing gas development framework and develop a new gas fiscal regime. The present gas fiscal regime provides little incentive for the deep development of the gas sector. It will be reviewed to encourage reduced flaring and greater utilisation in power generation. We shall develop gas supply infrastructure, especially developing the gas pipeline along Oben-Abuja-Kaduna-Kano as a priority project. We shall work with seriousness to reduce gas flaring. Our government shall implement an integrated approach that will incorporate gas development and deployment for power. These are some of the strategies and approach that we shall adopt to provide adequate electricity for Nigerians. If we solve the power problem, we would have hit at a major cause of our economic underdevelopment and inability of many Nigerians to improve their well-being by realising the optimal potentials of their vocations.

What about the issue of education? There have been insinuations that public educational institutions have been left to rot because high government officials own some of the high profile private schools. For example, you and the former president are proprietors of universities.
How many private universities or schools are there in America? Ninety per cent of schools in America are private, all the government does is to give grants and set standards and ensure that those standards and qualities are met. Unfortunately, I was not the president; I was only the vice-president. I was not in the driving seat, but I believed that the president tried as much as possible in terms of education. We budgeted more for education than previous governments in this country. I in particular was so passionate about education that we organised the Northern Education Summit, where we drew up the blueprint for education in the North so that we can as much as possible catch up with the other part of the country. We also gave guidelines on what percentage of their budget should go to education minimum, but these efforts were derailed immediately we started having disagreements with the president just after three years of our stay in office. I believe both the president and I tried to do our best. I only wished we did not have that disagreement and we had continued with governance the way we carried out in the first three years, Nigeria would have been a different country today.

What is your view on the handling of the amnesty programme by the government so far?
It is being shabbily handled.

How far have you gone with your case in the United States? Your critics are saying you can’t even enter the US without being apprehended by the security agencies and that’s why you now prefer to travel out only to Dubai?
United States is not Nigeria; if you have a case, you have a case, they will call you wherever you may be. I was going to the United States because my family was there. My wife took up a job with the American University in Dubai as an Assistant Professor, so I moved. I went to meet my family, pure and simple.

So, it is not as if you are running away from the United States, because that is the speculation in some sections of the media?
Well, I don’t know which media, but that’s all and if United States were looking for me or my wife about three weeks ago, we were in their Embassy in Abuja. I was with my wife and children, we came out and if we had a case to answer, they would have grabbed any of us.

What then do you make of the allegations of your involvement in the Halliburton and the Siemens bribery scandal?
Well, if anybody has a case, let him bring the case. Nobody has even interviewed me or interviewed any person connected with me. It’s just some people trying to soil my name and it has been going on for quite sometime- “Oh, the Vice President is corrupt”. You know, when you have political opponents, there are some of them who will go to any extent to destroy you. See me, a vice-president for eight years and you have investigated me from top to bottom, you couldn’t bring one charge, haba!

Are you saying there is no truth whatsoever in the allegations that you were involved in the Halliburton and the Siemens bribe scandals?
Okay, bring the evidence now. Bring the evidence.

Okay, looking back into your years as the vice-president, is there anything you would have liked to do differently?
Well, my only regret is that the cordial working relationship between me and my boss was terminated so prematurely to the disadvantage of the whole country.There was overbearing influence of advisers and hangers-on.